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Thread: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

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    Default Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    No, they will be an asset to the service
    (source - tribune india)

    T
    he Indian Administrative Service and other All-India and Central Services have been created under Art. 312 of the Constitution and enjoy a special protection in the matter of removal or dismissal under Art 311. Members of these elite services are recruited through the Union Public Service Commission by open competition. These services are highly coveted and sought after not only because of high emoluments and perquisites but because their members occupy the highest civil positions in the Central and State governments, guide policy formulation and are privy to decision making at the highest level, and therefore, command great power and prestige in society. Naturally, the recruitment policy and rules have been a subject matter of intense debate and have undergone many changes since inception. Major changes have been in the areas of quote reservation, age of entry, weightage to interview, and the examination.The parliamentary committee headed by Mr Pranab Mukherjee has suggested to the UPSC and the Central Government to reconsider allowing highly specialised professionals like doctors and engineers to compete for the civil services. Presumably, the question is whether the high cost the nation bears in preparing these professionals, should be “wasted” on the civil services, for which simple graduates should suffice. If true, this view is neither fair to the civil services nor to the professionals.
    As is well known, it was in China that the system of selecting candidates for government jobs by putting them through a written examination was started as early as in the Eighth century. Their curriculum was the study of the ideas of Confucius. It was believed that if they were well versed in them, they would make good mandarins. For Confucius taught that an enduring state was built on the merits of its rulers’ advisers and administrators, as their moral example inspired those beneath them. The British took this idea of holding a competitive examination for entry to the Indian Civil Service, which was initially open only to the British citizens. The candidates were required to show high proficiency in liberal education, which was the hallmark of a gentleman those days. The high academic excellence of the ICS officers was thus ensured as those who were selected came from “Oxbridge” or other leading universities. But more than academic excellence, the selectors looked for other qualities of head and heart in the candidates, and their moral fibre.
    An all-India competitive examination for IAS and other allied services similarly offered a challenge to the brightest boys and girls of our universities. On the face of it, the minimum qualification was only graduation. But it was clear from the very beginning that high academic excellence was the pre-requisite for entry. Candidates aspiring for the IAS and the Indian Foreign Service were required to write two higher standard (Masters level) papers in two different subjects, apart from writing other papers in common with other services, which included a comprehensive paper in general knowledge and writing an essay in English.
    There was no ban as such for engineering or medical graduates, but their subjects of study were not included in the choices open to the candidates initially. On reconsideration, however, in later years, first the engineering subjects and then medicine, including veterinary medicine, were also included, making the competition truly universal. It is considered unfair and legally untenable to deny them the opportunity. The harsh truth is that in our society where everything is in scarce supply the regulators, even the lower level inspectors, call the shots. Our society values teachers, doctors, engineers, industrialists, but it prizes power more.
    The portals of the civil services were thus thrown open to the professionals, and they generally secured top grades. In our batch (1964), for example, the topper, N.C. Saxena, was a double M.Sc in Physics and Mathematics from Allahabad University, and the next, Omesh Sehgal, was the IIT topper. Both had a distinguished career, Saxena as Director of Mussoorie’s Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration and Secretary to Government of India (GoI) and to the Planning Commission, and Omesh as Chief Secretary, Delhi. For my higher papers, I had taken English Literature (in which I had taken a Masters’ degree from Allahabad University) and British Constitutional History (which I had not studied formally). I was placed 95th in the list (the last position for a “general” candidate). But I also ended my innings as Chief Secretary, and by all accounts had a “distinguished” career.
    I cite these examples only to make a point. The subjects you take for the examination don’t count in your career. I have been Director of Agriculture (generally held by “technocrats”), Controller of Road Transport, Chairman of State Electricity Board, among other things, and all I had “specialised” in was the poetry of Shelley and Wordsworth. Shelley’s Ode To The West Wind, though electrifying in many ways, was but a poor guide to managing a power utility, and Walter Bagehot’s illuminating interpretation of the British Constitution no reliable tool to fathom the political crosscurrents of Haryana, where Aya Rams and Gaya Rams abounded.
    I must add though that another of our batch mate, N.K. Singh, who had studied Economics, rose to be Finance Secretary in GoI. But Ajit Kumar has also been Finance Secretary, who like me had studied English Literature. Which is as well, for what the members of the higher civil services are required to do is manage, control and administer the systems and the men behind them. It mostly boils down to man management — motivating them to achieve the organisation goals.
    So, in my reckoning, those who have studied professional courses to qualify as doctors or engineers adapt themselves as readily to the requirements of the civil services as those with “liberal” education. They have the “scientific temper” in a greater measure, which is an advantage. Any debate on this issue is therefore pointless. The further argument that society makes a huge investment in them, which is rendered fruitless in the event of their joining the civil services, is fallacious. For I hold that one can never be too qualified for the civil services. May be, I have found it to be a humbling experience till the last.
    The task is made infinitely more complex and challenging due to the fact that these officers have to perform with politicians breathing down their neck. But the politicians represent the sovereign will of the people, and have a better perception of the problems at the grassroots. Ideally, therefore, there should be harmony between them rather than acrimony, and therein lies the challenge. In literature when the performance of the members of the ICS and of the IAS is evaluated, the latter come in for disparaging comments. It is not fully realised that the IAS officers serve in an altogether different political milieu. It takes the best in them to measure up to the task.
    We used to have long debates on brain drain. No longer. Now we resent if Germany reduces the intake of our professionals, or there is a job cut in the US due to recession or 9/11. With “remittances” being our major national resource, it is perhaps in greater national interest to produce professionals for foreign markets. How does it matter in that case if out of the thousands of professionals that we produce every year, some are absorbed by the civil services? They are welcome for they inject new blood in its frame.


    The writer is a former Chief Secretary of Haryana
    J.MANIVANNAN.The solutions to all the problems are simple only,we only make it complicated. Think simply the best.
    http://indianeconomyforcs.blogspot.com/

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    Not too shy to talk anbu1123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    @Mani..

    wonderful article..you have'nt mentioned the name of the Chief Secretary..whoever he/she is,they've given some strong points..this question of banning professionals to compete in civil service should stop right here after going through this article..

    i think these lines,if they are true should be given some deep thought..

    The parliamentary committee headed by Mr Pranab Mukherjee has suggested to the UPSC and the Central Government to reconsider allowing highly specialised professionals like doctors and engineers to compete for the civil services. Presumably, the question is whether the high cost the nation bears in preparing these professionals, should be “wasted” on the civil services, for which simple graduates should suffice.

    did the Parliamentary committee really think that when professionals compete with non-professional aspirants,it's a wastage of government's input ? ..common now..that's really gross...how could such 'highly specialised professionals' be a waste in govt. administration ?

    and the assumption that "simple graduates" should only appear for UPSC..!

    what does an individual's performance in administration have to do with his/her background ?...

    i mean i can cite many of my Engg. and doctor friends who (no real offence meant) are sort of ineligible when it comes to managing things,people,situations..and at the same time,i can list down many of my friends from non-professional backgrounds doing some wonderful things in any other fields..they are really competent and prodigious when it comes to managing the given situation..

    according to me,Administration necessarily is not determined by a person's background..
    it is the exposure, environment, experience, shrewdness and innovative capabilities that a person has/acquires that ultimately decides how good an administrator he/she is...

    by the way,coming back to the Parliamentar committee's assumption...that
    "simple graduates" should only appear for UPSC

    where are they really arriving at ?

    that people from other backgrounds,or 'simple graduates' are incompetent and these politicians can carry on their job of 'milagaai araikiradhu'(sorry to use a Tmail slang here...that means 'walking over' or more literally 'dumping') more easily and without any stiff opposition or questions asked..

    or, is it their conclusion that people from professional backgrounds are meant only for high salary jobs,production oriented and never service-oriented jobs? have they concluded that these professionals are no use when it comes to government administration,service ?

    i really don't know!
    [COLOR=Blue]Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending[/COLOR][COLOR=blue][COLOR=#0000ff]....[/COLOR] [/COLOR]

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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    Dear anbu, that was a nice analysis you have done. About your questions from your analysis, I have to give a good stuff. But I will give you after Prelims due to lack of time.
    J.MANIVANNAN.The solutions to all the problems are simple only,we only make it complicated. Think simply the best.
    http://indianeconomyforcs.blogspot.com/

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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    moved to Debates and Discussion Forum. indeed it's a topic of much debate.

    "If for salary, it is a defeating try, for IAS to be it is cognition worth a try"



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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    certainly not.........a technical mind is needed for solving technical problems.
    HAVING INDIA IN BLOOD VEINS........

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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    I think its not a matter wheather ur doctor or engineer or graduate in other faculty in ICS ,basically its ur abilility to tackle the situation and quality leadership with futuristic vision to give something concrete and valuble to this Indian society.So its not a issue of debate, the one who holds these qualities wheather doctor or engineer has a oppurtunity to appear for ICS and give his best for this country

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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    Degree is not a big issue after success in the UPSC exam and get alloted IAS cos LBSNAA imparts administrative training to all qualifiers which give them equal opportunity to become good administrators as IAS officers. But, it seems good if new services are created for doctors and engineers at par with the IAS like Indian Doctor Service, Indian Engineering Serivces (ies is already perhaps) or something else.

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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    What characterstics, qualities should be possessed by an IAS officer who directly contribute to formulation and execution of Govt. welfare policies and schemes? Should they not be well qulified with high qualities? And I opine that Engineers or Doctors are, in most of the cases, more intellectuals, qualified than simple graduates ( I am too a simple graduage). Then why we should barred such befitting persons from IAS. ON the other hand the question of cost incurred on them does not impact at all as if there is expenditure on them, some one has earned his bread. Where is the question of wastage of money? Secondly, qualification required is graduate how can we barr them as being graduate?.

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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    The government has slowly been unburdening itself of preparing highly skilled professionals. The fee structure of government run professional institutes is converging with that of private ones.

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    Default Re: Should doctors, engineers be barred from joining the IAS?

    yes they should be barred so random no0bs like me have less competition to face.

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