[gaurav]

sir,
with d permission of all the moderators i want to start
discussion on this topic

a very frequent qs asked in interviews
may i plz invite everyone to critically discuss the issue

[chanda_s]

gaurav, it would have been better if you had put forward your views on the topic before inviting others to join. no problem, you can do it even now.

kindly avoid short cuts in the language you use here. use complete words and not sms type language like 'd', 'plz', 'qs' etc.

eagerly waiting for your views on the topic.

[gaurav]

The topic doesnt seem a straigtforward one.
On one side talking in the "indian context",there is also an ethical side associated to it.
The decision on the one hand can increase std's like AIDS and misbehavior with the woman goes without saying
it may also increase crimes against woman
but on the other hand its a persons right to freedom
may i ask whether prostitution is defined in the constitution if is then how is it defined?

[chanda_s]

constitution doesn't define terms like prostitution and murder. thats not what a constitution is meant for.

most of us do not have a clear idea of what constitution is. i advise all civil service aspirants to read the constitution atleast once. only then would you get an idea as to what constitution really is and what its significance is. you needn't become a constitutional expert but you must know what is in it.

[harshabanad]

One glorifying topic this one!!!...which would pull all chauvinists into discussion.
...aligning away from all those pros and cons type of discussion I would just mention that a day would come in the indian family where a son would say-" Dad, increase my pocket Money,I need to visit a prostitute" or a daughter saying- "I don't need your money dad, I'm independent, I work part time".
So legalisation is totally out of question.
But then,then there is no law which can prevent a woman from having consentual sex irrespective of whether she has taken money or not!!The only thing is that it shouldn't affect the morality of the public. So here I would say that prostitution should be confined to such areas where general public and children are kept out...after all it is the oldest profession!!...but gaurav how could you ever imagine that constitution would define prostitution?..?????

[Nethra K Putti]

what is the original meaning of Legalising Prostitution in India?

[vvijayab]

Prostitution is accepted differently in different countries. In countries where it is accepted such as Netherlands, UK, US, NZ, Canada, Barzil and all there are strong laws to guide and govern them and people of the country follow the rules religiously. Even this sector is one that goes through lots of health hazards and require health insurance coverage, which is by law and these business pay taxes. It's a big market and business can advertise. In countries where it is not accpeted such as Sudan, Thailand and so on have stricter laws for it not to happen and severe punishment. All this is becuase of the culture and mindset of the people living there. Bringing India into perspective, would like to put following basics:
a) India still has good part of population that is poor and gets driven into unlawful easier means to get good bucks and for women bars, brotherls are a good way. Legalizing it would be a boon for pimps.
b) Education is getting better and literacy rate is increasing, but our mindset is not changing at the same rate. Maturity is still lacking.
c) Culturally, men (not all) is lazy and expects to get free food and luxury. Women is a bovine who like to go with the her husbands decisions. If women is asked by husband to get into prostitution then she will get into for the sake of family.

Other then the above prostitution give rise to criminalization, trafficking and so on. We already have lots of things to set right and making prostitution legalize will be a bane.

We have laws that says child below 14 should not work. If we got a Tea shop and ask the lad his age then he will say 14 and we even knowing that he is not leave him thinking he has got some personnel problems which we can't help. When we does this we lost a change to make things better. We have to get resposible, matured, shred the selfish attitude and yes after that we can give this topic another thought.

Thanks,

[chanda_s]

Originally Posted by harshabanad

I would just mention that a day would come in the indian family where a son would say-" Dad, increase my pocket money,I need to visit a prostitute" or a daughter saying- "I don't need your money dad, I'm independent, I work part time".
So legalisation is totally out of question.
But then,then there is no law which can prevent a woman from having consentual sex irrespective of whether she has taken money or not!!

i dont think that day would ever come. it hasn't come even in western countries.

to my knowledge, there is no law that says prostitution per se is illegal. yes, trafficking is illegal, that is forcibly inducing woman to prostitution. so the words legalising prostitution have to be defined properly. does this mean that we have a system of issuing licenses or permits or something like that? or may be enabling the women into prostitution to pay taxes?

The other debate thats worth giving a thought to about sex work is whether women can ever consent to engaging in sex work. The argument raised by many is that the act of taking up sex work has two possibilities; either the woman was coerced and therefore trafficked, or, even if she has exercised choice, it would hardly be considered a choice because it would always be exercised under duress- of extreme poverty or deprivation. so the phrase sex by consent itself is debatable.

i remember harsha to be a lawyer. may be he can elaborate more on that. a detailed argument from you wold do a lot to improve the awareness of all of us here, harsha.

Originally Posted by vvijayab

c) Culturally, men (not all) is lazy and expects to get free food and luxury. Women is a bovine who like to go with the her husbands decisions. If women is asked by husband to get into prostitution then she will get into for the sake of family.

Thanks,

Hmmm..... this idea will not go well either with men or women.

[harshabanad]

Legalising prostitution would plainly mean the recognition of "Prostitution" by the state as a legal and a legitimate profession just as any other.It would be institutionalised. Prostitution would then receive the status, treatment and protection on par with other professions.
Hypothetically, I would like to imagine that it would be included more aptly under the 'services' sector. It would be included in the tertiary industry and the incomes earned from the prostitutes would go into calculating the G.N.P.
Eventually, the government would levy taxes and concessions for the welfare of the prostitutes. A detailed set of codes, rules and regulations wuld be brought about to monitor the acts of prostitutes and the men who would visit them.

In its more general sense prostitution is the setting one's self to sale or devoting to infamous purposes what is in one's power. In its more restricted and legal sense, it is the practice of a female offering her body to an indiscriminate intercourse with men, as distinguished from sexual intercourse confined to one man, or as sometimes stated, common lewdness of a woman for gain; the act of permitting a common and indiscriminate sexual intercourse for hire.It is not a crime per se.
S 2(f) of Immoral Traffic Act defines it as the act of a female offering her body for promiscous sexual intercourse for hire, whether in Money or kind.
Now a question arises- "Is a woman who offers herself to her boss for a quick promotion(gain) prostitute?
As a verb its definition is to offer freely to a lewd use or to indiscriminate lewdness. As an adjective it means openly devoted to lewdness; sold to wickedness or infamous practices. A female may live in a state of illicit carnal intercourse with a man for many years without being called a prostitute.
One serious fallout by legalising prostitute is that- under sec 372 of I.P.C, adoption of a daughter by a dance girl would be an offense if it was done with the intention that such person shall at any age be employed or used for prostitution. Now if it is legalised, it would encourage more dance girls to adopt daughters which would end up in sale of girls.

And officer Chanda, whether consent has been free or under duress does not hold good in prostitution. There is a presumption of free consent. Consent of a women is as mysterious as she herself. Again you made me remember the age old question- "what is it that women really want"
Irrespective of consent,don't you think officer that a prostitute, at any point of time in having sex doesn't derive pleasure at all?While she takes pleasure, the men get pleasure.!!

[puneetg]

This seems to be turning into a very interesting discussion. I think I particularly enjoyed reading vvijayab's comments. I have always preferred taking a legal approach to prostitution. My understanding is that sex workers need legal protection, proper insurance against health hazards and also regular health checks to take care of those that might be affected with HIV or other STDs. So contrary to one opinion expressed in this discussion that it will encourage large scale sex and rapid spread of AIDS, I'd beg to differ. I think a more regularised procedure that requires customers visiting prostitutes to register themselves or at least disclose their ages together with their health assessments, might discourage some youngsters from venturing into forbidden territories at a young age. It might help curb spread of HIV too. Social stigma associated with visiting prostitutes encourages secret activity in this sphere which is dangerous.

Regarding Chanda's comments whether poverty forcing women to take up prostitution can be seen as sex by choice. Well, I just have one point to make on that which is that it is very hard to decide what will be "sex by choice" in that case. I think economic necessity driving a person into a particular profession is to an extent a conscious choice (though of course in this case there might be a lot of other pressures). If the same woman decides to earn another level of income by working as a sweeper in the streets or as a washerwoman, that too is economic need driving her into the occupation and it is "sweeping by choice" or "washing by choice". My point is that poverty is a condition, a constraint or rather a circumstance in one's life and it is under this constraint she/he has to make an optimal choice keeping in mind her/his own understanding of her/his comfort level together with her/his values. (Yes, prostitution is there for guys too....but I guess it is often seen largely with connotations for females....so I'll generally stick to the convention except noting that it is there for guys too.)

In Chanda's doubt I see an implicit assumption that no one would practice prostitution by choice and although it does seem to be a realistic assumption, I wonder if the generalisation is indeed universal. Some women might indeed see it as a convenient source of income despite associated health problems. (People smoke too despite knowing about its health effects, except they are not paid for smoking). But I am wary of pressure from family or some mean brokers forcing women into prostitution against their wishes. I think that is a real challenge in allowing legalization for prostitution (a point that vvijayab brought up).

Having said all this, I generally agree that Indians in general are not really prepared to handle legal prostitution at the moment and maturity and education is still lacking.

regards
Puneet